赞达亚jacob「赞达亚对话安德鲁加菲尔德Actorsonactors」

- We were on set for "Spider-Man." I kept forgetting that you were English because you spoke in your American accent the whole time. - Yeah. - And I was like, oh, shit, he is... - Oh, sugar.

我们当时在拍《蜘蛛侠》。我总会忘了你是英国人，因为你一直用美国口音说话。- 是的。- 我就想，哦，我靠，他是……哦，甜心。

- Oh, oh, snap.

哦，哦，打响指。

He is, he is from, dang. - Oh, darn. - Darn, darn it. - Oh, fudge, fudge. - Fudgesicles.

他是，他来自，该死。- 哦，真讨厌。- 真讨厌，烦死了。- 哦，废话，废话。- 软糖冰棍。

What was really funny, I think, about it is, like, Tom was so nervous about you guys coming in. - That's so wild.

我觉得最有趣的是，汤姆对你们的到来很紧张。- 太不寻常了。

- So nervous. - He never let anything onto, pull those pants down.

太紧张了。- 他从来没有让我们受到任何影响，把裤脚放下来。

Get those calves. Get under, under wraps. - Under control. - Yeah.

把小腿伸进去，伸进去…… - 保持正常。- 对。

- These crazy forearms.

这难穿的前臂紧身衣。

Inside jokes. - Wait, what was that from, what was that from?

这是我们的内部笑话。- 等等，那是什么，那是什么？

I forget what that was from. - It was a Toby one, and he was like, "Those crazy," because he was trying to pull up the...- These crazy forearms.

我忘了这是怎么回事了。- 是托比的笑话，他说，“那些疯的”，因为他想把……拉上来。 - 这难穿的前臂紧身衣。

- So it reminded me of this.

这让我想起了这个。

- Acting.

表演。

- So acting. - Acting.

说到表演。- 表演。

So, really, acting though, because.

不过，说到表演，因为。

- We knew this would happen, really. We were like, "It's gonna go great off-camera. As soon as it starts rolling, we're gonna be like, 'So, I don't know how to speak anymore.'" Yeah.

我们知道会这样，真的。我们当时想，“在镜头外的感觉很不错。可一旦开始拍摄，我们就会表现得，‘那么，我不知道该怎么说话了。’”是啊。

- No, but, okay, but seriously though, because I haven't said to you yet, and I've been saving it since I've seen you this morning.

不，但是，好吧，不过说真的，因为我还没跟你说过，而且我今早见到你之后就一直留着这些话。

Having seen season two now of your show "Euphoria," with our friend, Sam Levinson, the brilliant creator, showrunner, director extraordinaire that he is, and your incredible cast, but I just do wanna start making you very uncomfortable and say that it is kind of one of the most remarkable things.

我已经看了你的电视剧《亢奋》第二季，和我们的朋友萨姆·莱文森一起看的，他是位才华横溢的创作者、制片人、杰出的导演，还有你们剧中不可思议的演员阵容，但我真的想先说会你很不自在的话，我想说，这真是最了不起的剧集之一。

I've seen an actor do in recent memory because of its rawness, because of its agony, because of its unflinching vulnerability and access to a woundedness, and a kind of universal soul-cry for meaning that you seem to just have and access.

在最近的记忆中，我看到了一名演员有这样的表演，因为它的那种天然，因为它的痛苦，因为它毫不畏缩的脆弱和接近伤痛的选择，还有很普世的灵魂呐喊，而你似乎拥有并接触到了那样的意义。

How, but how? - Well, thank you. - No, but like...- No, but I mean that, that means the world. I really, really appreciate that.

怎么做到的，但是你怎么做到的？- 谢谢你。- 不，但是就像…… - 不，但我是认真的，你这么夸我真的很感谢。我真的，真的很感激。

- But, like, it's kind of wild, man.

但是，就像，有点肆意的感觉，朋友。

And I know it's hard to receive those things, 'cause you just do what you do, but for me to witness it, especially, I think it was episode five.

我知道接收这些东西很难，因为你只是在做你该做的事，但对我来说，尤其是，我想这是第五集。

What's the name of the episode?

这一集叫什么名字？

"Stand Like a Hummingbird." - Yeah, it was "Stand Still Like a Hummingbird." - "Stand Still Like a Hummingbird." - Where did you put it, where'd you put my pills, Mom?

“像蜂鸟一样静止站立”。是的，是“像蜂鸟一样静止站立”。- “像蜂鸟一样静止站立”。你把它放哪里了，你把我的药放哪里了，妈妈？

Where did you put it? - [Leslie] Get out of my way, get out of my way.

你把它放哪了？ - 别挡我的路，闪一边儿去。

I'm calling the police. - [Rue] No you can't, you can't do that. - Yeah.

我要报警。- 不行，你不能报警，你不能这么做。- 我要报警。

- [Leslie] You will not attack me in my own home. - I'll do whatever the fuck I want in your own home.

你不能在我自己的家里攻击我。- 在你家里我想干什么就干什么。

- It is one of the most relentless episodes of television, like emotionally relentless episodes of television I've ever seen.

这一集是电视剧中最残酷无情的其中一集，是我看过的情感上最无情的电视剧集。

And we love you so much in the show, just as a character, and to see you being, and I know you, you know, I'm starting to get to know you better and better, but to have access to that kind of awfulness. - [Zendaya] Yeah, I know.

我们非常喜欢你在剧中的角色，看到你在那，我了解你，我开始越来越了解你，但却有那种可怕的感觉。- 是的，我明白。

- And the damage and the pain, and to make it so human, and I'm not asking a question yet, and I don't know how to ask a question about it, and it's gonna be 30 minutes of just praising you, and that's fun for me and for all of us.

还有伤害和痛苦，让它变得如此人性化，我还没问问题，我不知道该怎么问，接下来的 30 分钟都是赞美你，这对我和我们所有人来说都很有趣。

Not for you, but...- I don't know how to, I'm still trying to figure out how to take 'em. - No, no, no.

对你来说不会那么有趣，但是……- 我不知道要怎么面对，我还在想怎么接受这些赞美。- 不，不，不。

- Well, yeah, but that's another thing we can get into. - Yeah, taking compliments.

是的，但那是另一件我们可以讨论的事。- 是的，接受赞美。

- Actors taking compliments.

演员接受赞美。

Welcome back to actors taking compliments with Zendaya and Andrew.

欢迎回到演员接受赞美之赞达亚对话安德鲁。

No, but for real, though, so how did you sustain access to that agony, access to that rage, access to that yearning, for the whole series, but particularly that relentless episode, like how did you do that?

不，但说真的，你是如何在整部剧集中，尤其在很残酷无情的那一集，一直维持那种痛苦、那种愤怒、那种渴望的？你是怎么做到的？

- Let's just really go right to it, right? - Sorry, it's, like, the thing I'm interested in.

我们就直接切入正题，是这意思吗？- 抱歉，这是我感兴趣的事情。

- But I wanna say thank you because, you know, I've obviously been a fan of your work for a long time, and hearing, I think, you know, compliments from people that you admire, and people whose work that you respect, it means so much, you know?

但我想说谢谢你，因为我一直都是你作品的粉丝，听到来自你欣赏之人的赞美，这个人的作品都让我非常尊重，这对我来说意义重大，你知道吗？

So thank you for that. - Well, I'm flattered that it's so meaningful to you. - Yes, no it is.

所以谢谢你。- 嗯，我很荣幸这对你很有意义。- 是的，不，它是。

But it's tough, and I thought what was actually quite sweet was when that episode did air, I did get a lot of messages from people checking in on me, which I really appreciated.

但这很难，我觉得其实很暖心的是，当那集播出时，我确实收到了很多人发来的信息，他们问我怎么样，我真的很感激。

- That makes me wanna cry a little bit. - Yeah.

这让我有点想哭。- 是啊。

- It was very kind and heartwarming in that way, that people were looking out.

大家都很关注，这真的非常体贴，很温暖。

I think there was a lot of actors that were like, "Are you good?" And I was like, "Yeah, I'm good, I'm good." - It didn't feel like there was any acting.

我想有很多演员会问，“你还好吗？”我说，“是的，我很好，我很好。”感觉不像是在演戏。

It felt like you were living through something in such an authentic way, so.

感觉就像你真实地经历了一些事情，所以。

- I don't know, you know, it's hard to say that there's any specific process for that, right?

我不知道，很难说有什么具体的入戏过程，对吗？

I feel like, when it comes to Rue, at least for me, my experience with her is, I've been able, I've had the privilege of playing her for a while, right? - Yeah.

我觉得，说到鲁，至少对我来说，我和她在一起的经历是，我能够，我能有幸扮演她一段时间，对吗？- 是的。

So I've had the luxury of living in her skin for a bit, and the closeness that I share with Sam, who you spoke of, is a huge part of that because I think Rue is very much based on him as a teenager.

所以我有幸披着她的皮肤生活了一段时间，我和萨姆之间的亲密感是其中很大的一部分原因，你刚提到的萨姆，因为我认为鲁在很大程度上是以他少年时的样子为原型的。

And I think a lot of the pain that he went through, and now him being able to turn it into something quite beautiful and express it through Rue.

我想到了他所经历的很多痛苦，现在他能够将这些痛苦转化为非常美丽的东西，并通过鲁表达出来。

So Rue has become kind of like an amalgamation of my experiences, his experiences, and our collective pain, and seeing through the eyes of an addict, and trying to always kind of, I think the approach was to try to approach it as human as possible without ever shying away from the devastation and the ugliness of what that can create.

所以鲁就像是结合了我的经历与他的经历，还有我们共同痛苦的融合，透过一个瘾君子的眼睛去看，尽量去，我认为我们的方法是尽可能以人性的方式去面对它，而不回避它所造成的破坏和丑陋。

And, also, 'cause it's not just about Rue, right?

而且，因为这不仅仅是鲁的事，对吗？

That whole kind of opening, it's about an entire family and friends and loved ones that are affected by that pain, as well, and you have to show that, and you have to go there.

这种开口，是关于整个家庭、朋友和亲人也受到这种痛苦的影响，你必须表现出来，你必须身临其中。

And I had actually been very afraid to shoot that episode because it had been an episode that we, that's why I was having a hard time remembering the name of the episode, 'cause we just always called it the Rue run.

其实我一直很害怕拍摄那一集，因为这一集我们，这就是为什么我很难记住这一集的名字，因为我们总是叫它“鲁选择逃跑”。

So, you know, it had been written for, like, a while before the pandemic, and so I was kind of dreading having to do it.

所以，这集是在疫情之前写的，所以我有点害怕不得不拍这一集。

I was very scared to tackle that. - Of course, yeah.

我很害怕面对这个问题。- 当然，是的。

- And also knowing that on top of just kind of this massive blowout, where the pain is coming to a head and getting to a point where you can't hide it anymore, and then on top of that, she's going through withdrawal.

而且我也知道，在这种巨大的爆发之后，痛苦已经到了顶点，到了你无法再隐藏的地步，而最重要的是，她正在经历戒断反应。

Yeah. - So that's like a whole nother physical thing and aspect to kind of keep inside your brain while also trying to, like, understand everything else that's happening.

是的。- 所以这就像是另一种身体上的感觉，还有在你大脑里的方面，同时也试图理解其他正在发生的一切。

What was cool, basically, is we, you know, Sam lit the whole house.

最酷的是，可以说，我们，萨姆给拍摄现场带来了光亮。

So we usually, with "Euphoria," it's like things are very structured shots, right, and to try to give the show that feels very chaotic, some type of structure, a lot of dollies and a lot of calculated kind of camera movements for that, it was all Marcell, our incredible cinematographer, Marcell Rev.

我们在拍摄《亢奋》时，通常都是非常有组织的镜头，对吧，为了给表现剧集的一种非常混乱的感觉，有某种结构，有很多移动式摄影车，还有很多精心设计的摄像机移动轨迹，这都是马塞尔，我们出色的电影摄影师，马塞尔·雷夫的杰作。

He was, you know, had it on his shoulder the whole time and was moving with me, and I think it becomes like a dance, you know?

他一直把摄像机扛在肩上，和我一起移动，我觉得这就像跳舞一样，你知道吗？

Of course, yeah. - [Zendaya] When you have that camera operator that understands.

当然，是的。 - 当你有那个能理解角色情绪的摄像师的时候。

- How long were those takes?

那些镜头拍了多长时间？

- Until the mag went out.

拍到胶片用完。

So, you know...- 'Cause you shoot on film.

所以，你知道…… - 因为你们是用胶片拍摄。

- Yeah. - Which is... And there's very specific film stock that you guys use, as well. - Yeah, Ektachrome.

是的。- 也就是……还有你们用的是非常特殊的胶片。- 是的，埃克塔克罗姆（胶卷名）。

- Yeah. - That they made for us.

是的。- 这种胶卷简直就是为我们而生产的。

- So beautiful. - So crazy. - It enhances everything and just kind of gives it a hue of beauty and sadness and tenderness.

太美了。- 太惊艳了。- 它增强了一切效果，赋予它一种美丽、悲伤与温柔的色调。

I was gonna ask you, like, did you say, "We're doing my close-up first?" - No, we...- Like, "I don't give a shit about the, a crap about the dolly." - There was no kind of structure 'cause there couldn't be.

我本来想问你，比如，你有没有说，“我们先拍我的特写吗？”不，我们…… - 比如，“我才不在乎移动式摄影车怎么动的事。”没有那种结构，因为不可能有。

There had to be a level of volatility and unpredictability to her mood and where it was gonna go, so we just started from the beginning.

她的情绪一定会有一定程度的波动和不可预测性、她的情绪会走向哪里，所以我们就从头开始拍摄。

And they just made, they said, "Listen, you can break whatever you want, we made it so it's safe to break and throw whatever you want, and we're gonna light the whole house, so you can go through the whole thing. - Wow, that's great.

他们就做了，他们说，“听着，你可以打碎任何你想打碎的东西，我们做的很安全，你可以打碎任何东西，可以扔任何你想扔的东西，我们会给整个房子打光，这样你就可以经历整个过程。- 哇，太棒了。

- So weirdly caring.

这么照顾人。

- So caring, right? To make sure I was good. - So beautifully caring, yeah. 'Cause they know that you were gonna be doing something incredibly painful and hard. - I know.

非常照顾，对吗？为了确保我很好。- 非常贴心的照顾，是的。因为他们知道你会做一些非常痛苦和艰难的事情。- 我知道。

- [Zendaya] Yeah.

是啊。

- And then how many takes of that sequence did you do?

然后你拍了多少次这个镜头？

- You know, just over and over again until we felt like we had it, and then we moved on to the next part, but it was a long day, 'cause that's like. - That was one day?

你知道，拍了一遍又一遍，直到我们觉得我们做到了，然后我们继续拍下一部分，但那是漫长的一天，因为那就像。- 拍了一天？

- It was one day of just fighting everyone, and, you know, I'm sure you can understand, but when you're playing a character that you deeply care about, but they're actively making decisions where you're like, "Why, please don't say that, don't do that." And then, on top of that, you, as a person, with your fellow actors, you love them, you care about them.

那是和所有人对抗的一天，而且，我相信你能理解，但当你扮演一个你非常关心的角色时，他们却在主动做出决定，你会想，“为什么，请不要这么说，不要这么做。”然后，最重要的是，你，作为一个人，你和你的演员同伴，你爱他们，你在意他们。

You don't wanna say these things to other. - Why am I crying? - I know, no.

你不想对别人说这些话。- 我为什么会哭？- 我明白，不。

But you don't wanna hurt somebody else, you know?

但你不想伤害别人，你懂吗？

You don't wanna hurt someone.

你不想伤害别人。

You don't wanna say something to someone that hurts them.

你不想对别人说些伤害他们的话。

That's not the kind of person I feel like I am.

我觉得我不是那种人。

You know what's a shame, Mom?

你知道什么是耻辱吗，妈妈？

My dad's dead.

我爸爸死了。

Kind of keeps you from admitting what a shit fucking mother you are.

这样你就不会承认自己是个多烂的母亲了。

- So evident in that sequence, like, I can see those moments, which are just so subterranean, which are like, I don't wanna. - Wanna do this.

在那个场景中很明显，就像，我能看到那些时刻，这些时刻太隐蔽了，就像，我不想。- 不想这么做。

- "But I have to do it." - But I have to. - And so, actually, weirdly, your struggle as an actor can be used as your struggle as the character and then the lines become...- [Zendaya] Yeah.

“但我必须这么做。” - 但我必须这么做。- 所以，实际上，奇怪的是，你作为演员的挣扎可以被用作你作为角色的挣扎，然后台词就变成了…… - 是的。

- And anything you have inside, any pain at least I've held onto throughout my life, I just, I let Rue have it, you know, and I let her use whatever kind of, I need to hold onto, and I let her get it out for me.

你内心的任何东西、任何痛苦，至少我这一生都在忍着，我只是，我让鲁承受，我让她用任何我需要忍着的情绪，我让她为我发泄出来。

You know? - [Andrew] That's beautiful. - 'Cause I get it out in a different way.

你知道吗？- 太智慧了。- 因为我用另一种方式表达出来。

I'm not like that.

我不是那样的。

And often I shove, so it allows her to take that on, and I'm just very grateful to have an environment where I felt safe.

我经常推她，这样就让她承担了责任，我非常感激有一个让我感到安全的环境。

- My gosh, amen.

我的天哪，阿门。

Like, do you feel, 'cause I remember when I was a kid, I didn't know where to put, I'm not saying you're a kid, I'm just saying when I was a kid, I didn't know where to put my...- The feelings.

比如，你觉得，因为我记得当我还是个孩子的时候，我不知道该把情绪放在哪里，我不是说你是个孩子，我只是说当我还是个孩子的时候，我不知道该把我的……放在哪里。 - 感觉。

- Yeah, and my experience of this insanity of being alive, and obviously Sam Levinson, your fearless leader, is kind of dealing with his own demons within the show, which is so personal, obviously, and so kind of healing.

是的，我对这种疯狂的生活的体验，很明显，萨姆·莱文森，你无畏的领袖，在这部剧里也在处理面对他自己的恶魔，这很私人化，显然，也很治愈。

And when I found theater for the first time, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I get to be all the things I'm told not to be." - Right.

当我第一次接触戏剧时，我就想，“哦，天哪，我可以成为所有我被告知不要成为的人。”对。

- [Andrew] In an environment where I'm not gonna get judged. - Judged for it.

在一个我不会被人评判的环境里。- 为此受到评判。

But in fact I'm going to get thanked.

但事实上，我会得到感谢。

- [Zendaya] Right.

对。

- [Andrew] And I love the dynamic between you and your sister, particularly.

我特别喜欢你和你妹妹之间的互动。

And then the family of the mom saying, "No, this is about Rue," and then your sponsor, Coleman Domingo, amazing, the whole cast is so incredible. . - She's always, yeah. Who's brilliant.

然后还有家里，扮演妈妈的人说，“不，这是关于鲁的，”然后你的表演领路人，科尔曼·多明戈，太棒了，整个演员阵容都太棒了。- 是的，她一直都才华横溢。

I love Colman. - And the young actress who plays your sister is just like, wow. - Storm is also very...- Oh my gosh.

我爱科尔曼。- 扮演你妹妹的年轻女演员就像，哇。- Storm 演得也非常…… - 哦，我的天哪。

- I'm very lucky. - Dang. - I'm very, very lucky.

我很幸运。- 绝了。-我非常非常幸运。

- It's so cool. - 'Cause you need that.

太酷了。- 因为你需要它。

You know, you need that support 'cause your brain, part of it knows that what you're doing isn't real, right, or that it's not supposed to be real, but your body doesn't know the difference, right?

你知道，你需要这种支持，因为你的大脑，它的一部分知道你在做的事情不是真实的，对吗，或者它不应该是真实的，但你的身体不知道其中的区别，对吗?

You're still gonna get the same bruises if you kick a door down.

如果你踢开一扇门，你还是会有同样的伤痕。

What the fuck else am I supposed to do, huh?

我他妈还能做什么，啊？

- I have a great acting teacher who was basically like, "Well, it has to be healing. If it isn't healing, then we're not doing it right." - Right.

我有一位很棒的表演老师，他基本上是这样的，“它必须有治愈性。如果没有治愈性，那我们就做得不对。” - 是。

And it's about pitching it up, as you said, and pitching it out. - Right.

就像你说的，这是关于把情绪提起来，然后再抛出去。- 对。

- And, also, it does become of service. Like, I watched that and I got a lot of healing for the experiences cause I've had with the addicts in my life.

而且，它确实很有用。我看了那部部，这段经历让我得到了很多治愈，因为我和瘾君子相处过。

- And that's the point of what we do. - That's everything. - You know what I'm saying?

这就是我们工作的意义所在。- 这就是一切。- 你懂我的意思吗？

I'm with you. - If you can find a way to heal through it and hopefully heal someone else through it, that is, like...- That's it.

我在听。- 如果你能通过它找到一种治愈的方法，并希望能治愈其他人，也就是说，就像…… - 就是这样。

- That's the purpose of it.

这就是它的目的。

- Thank you, Brother.

谢谢你，兄弟。

Thank you for your understanding.

谢谢你的理解。

Thank you for sparing me.

谢谢你宽恕我。

- There's a million different characters that you're jumping in and out of, and how do you keep track of those people, and how are you able to separate or compartmentalize to a degree to make it healthy enough to say, "I'm leaving them here and then I'm moving on to this one, and then Andrew's gonna be here, and I'm gonna leave him here, you know." How do you find that balance? - Yeah. That's a good question, and I wanna deflect it, and I wanna bring it back to you, but I'll try and keep it on me for a second, but, like.

你要在那么多不同的角色中进进出出，你如何保持这些角色的节奏，你如何能够在一定程度上将他们区分开或进行划分，然后让自己足够健康地说，“我要把这些角色留在这里，然后我去表演下一个，然后安德鲁本人又会在这里，我把他留在这里。”你如何找到这种平衡？- 是啊。这是个好问题，我想转移话题，我想把这个问题同样问到你身上，但我会尽量先尝试回答一下这个问题，但是，就像。

Because it is important, and I don't know about you, but I find actually if, and it's about, I surf as well, so it's about wave selection.

因为这很重要，我不知道你怎么想，但我发现如果，这是关于，我也冲浪，所以这有点像波浪选择。

It's actually like, "Okay, is this wave mine or is this wave for that guy's? Or that girl's or that person's?" Like, "No, I'm gonna let that one pass." And when I started out acting, it was like, "I'll just take them all." - Yeah, right, right, right, "I just wanna act." - I did, like, the first thing I did was a Doritos commercial in Spain, and I thought I was done, I'd made it.

实际上就像，“好，这波浪是我的还是给那个人的？或者是那个女孩的，或者是那个人的？”就像，“不，我会让这波浪过去。”当我开始表演的时候，感觉就像，“我要把它们都拿走。”- 是的，对，对，对，“我只想表演。”我做的第一份演艺工作是在西班牙拍多力多滋薯片的广告，我想我完成了，我成功了。

I made like two grand for two days of work, and I was like, "That's like, my life is set up." Like showing my father the pay stub, going. - "I did it." - I don't need to work at Starbucks for the next week. - I love it.

我工作了两天，赚到两千美元，我当时想，“我的生活就这么定了。”比如给我父亲看工资单，说。- “我做到了。” - 下周我不需要在星巴克工作了。- 我喜欢。

- But then we get, I think both you and I have gotten to a very privileged position where we get to decide, and we get to have agency and choose, and I think it's really, I find it important for myself to go, "Well, what am I called to?

但后来我们得到了，我认为你和我都得到了非常受优待的位置，我们可以做出决定，我们可以有代理和选择，我认为这真的，我发现对我自己来说很重要的是，“我被召唤去做什么？

What am I actually, do I need, do I have a choice in this? - Right, right.

我到底是什么，我需要去，对此我有选择吗？- 对，对。

- If I'm like, "Oh my God, oh, no, I have to do this." - [Zendaya] I have to do it.

如果我说，“哦，我的天，哦，不，我必须这么做。”- 我必须这么做。

- It's that there are two types of fear.

恐惧有两种。

It's like one type of fear is that fear that says, "Oh, don't go there," which means a bus is coming. - Yeah.

有一种恐惧会说，“哦，不要去那里”，这意味着一辆公共汽车来了。- 是的。

And the other fear is the kind of fear that says, "Oh no, I have to go there." - Because...- Because you're gonna get hit by the right bus. - Bus. Yeah, if that makes sense, right.

另一种恐惧是那种会说，“哦，不，我必须去那里。”因为…… - 因为你就会被那辆车撞到。- 公共汽车。是的，如果这说得通的话。

So it's a meaning...- It's a good bus, yeah. - It's like a spiritual bus, but you think you're gonna get trounced by it, but actually, it's gonna enhance your life and expand you and you are gonna... - And that's such a scary feeling.

所以这意思就是…… - 是的，这是辆好车。- 它就像一辆精神巴士，但你以为你会被它打败，可实际上，它会提升你的生活，扩展你的生活，你会……那种感觉挺可怕的。

- Yeah, like this character I play in this, this guy, Jeb Pyre.

是的，就像我在这部电视剧中扮演的这个角色，这个人，杰布·派尔。

He's a Mormon detective, father, husband in the '80s in Utah, like... - There's some difference there. - There's a gap.

他是摩门教警探，是一位父亲，80 年代在犹他州，还是一位丈夫，就像……还是有区别的。- 有个缺口。

There's a distance, but that excites me as well. - Right.

虽然有距离，但这也让我很兴奋。 - 对。

And I'm like, "Well, so where does that Mormon detective live in me?" - [Zendaya] Inside of... Right.

我就想，“那个摩门教警探会深入到我内心的什么地方？”- 在内心的何处，对。

- And how can I live as him authentically, and how, what parts of myself need healing?

我如何才能真正像他一样生活，以及如何，我的哪些部分需要治愈？

She's in so much pain, Bishop, and all the pain she's in, what are we, what do I, what do I do?

她太痛苦了，毕夏普，她承受了这么多痛苦，我们该怎么办，我该怎么办？

- The average person would look at me and say, "Well, what the hell do they have in common with this character," right? With Rue. - Sure.

一般人会看着我说，“嗯，他们和这个角色有什么共同之处，”对吗？和鲁有什么相似之处。- 当然。

You know it's...- But on that, don't you think that empathic imagination is the job.

你知道这是…… - 但在这一点上，你不认为移情想象是工作吗？

- Yes.

是的。

And so, it's funny, so, like, on paper, right, that's what someone would assume, but it's interesting to me because I've found, kind of like what you're saying, but she's so much of an extension of myself.

所以，这很有趣，所以，就像，理论上，对，这是有人会假设的事情，但对我来说很有趣，因为我发现，有点像你说的，但她是我自己的延伸。

- Yeah.

是的。

- I don't know, you know, a few things different in our life, or, you know, wired a different way, whatever it is, and that's me, also.

我不知道，我们生活中有一些不同的事情，或者，不同之事以不同的方式连接，不管是什么，那也是我。

- But for the grace of God go I. Yeah, and I. - That kind of like thing where it's like, and that's the beauty of what we do as actors is we can look at any human being in any room and go.

但我是承蒙上帝的恩典去做的。是的，而且我。- 那种像这样的事情，这就是我们作为演员的美好之处，我们可以看着任何房间里的任何人，然后说。

- "There's part of me in that." - "I could end up there, I can end up here, I could end up," and that's kind of the universal thing of what we...- Empathy. - Yeah, exactly.

“那是我的一部分。” - “我可以在那里结束，我可以在这里结束，我可以在那里结束，”这是我们很普遍做的事情，我们…… - 共情。- 是的，没错。

- Yeah, that idea that, you know, we're all people trying to survive life and figure it out, and we don't know what we're doing, you know?

是啊，就是那种，我们都是努力生存的人，都想搞清楚生活，却不知道自己在做什么，你知道吗？

And I think with Rue, which I appreciated so much about when I first kind of went in to meet Sam is he said to me that I was on this board, this dream board that he had made for Rue.

我想关于鲁，我很感激当我第一次见到萨姆的时候他对我说，我在这块板上，这块他为鲁造就的梦想之板。

And I was like, I just didn't think that that was true because up until that point, I was like, "I've never really done anything to show that I could do what you're asking me to do." - [Andrew] Oh, interesting.

我当时想，我不认为那是真的，因为在那之前，我一直在想，“我从来没有真正做过任何事情来证明我能做你要求我做的事情。”- 哦，有意思。

- But he said, "I watched interviews and I just knew." - And I felt like, you know, that, to me, A, it meant a lot 'cause it meant somebody believed in me, but also, I think he saw the pieces of me that existed in Rue already, and thus part of himself, too.

但他说， “我看了采访，我就是知道。”我觉得，对我来说，首先，这意味着很多，因为这意味着有人相信我，但同时，我认为他看到了我的某些特点在鲁的身上也有，因此也是他自己的一部分。

- Yeah.

是的。

- You know, there was, like, a connection already creating and forming, and when I met him, he was like, "Oh, that's her." - And so I thought that that was quite fascinating, and then as I've gotten to be Rue, I feel like, with certain characters, right, you have to search for 'em, and, you know, it takes you a little bit longer to like, for them to click in your body and you feel like, "Oh, I'm in their skin now, right? "- Right, right.

你知道，我们之间有种联系已经形成了，当我见到他的时候，他说，“哦，那是她。”所以我觉得那很吸引人，然后当我成为鲁，我觉得，对于某些角色，对，你必须寻找他们，这需要你花更长的时间，让他们在你的身体里存在，然后你会觉得，“我现在是以他们的面貌存在，对吗？”- 对，对。

- With her, I don't have to think about it as much, right?

扮演鲁这个角色，我就不用想那么多了，对吗？

She's a little thing that just kind of takes over, and I know when Rue is here, and it's funny 'cause we joke about it on set, but, like, my face changes, right?

她就像个小东西，直接接管了我的身体，我知道鲁什么时候会在这里，这很有趣，因为我们在片场开玩笑，但是，我变脸了，对吗？

- It really does, yeah. - And I can tell that I look, I'm her now, and that's her expressions and her way of moving, and it's weird 'cause it's, like, it kind of creates its own thing.

真的，是的。- 我能分辨出来，我现在是她了，那是她的表情和她的行动方式，这很奇怪，因为这就像是，它创造了自己的东西。

I don't know, it's weird to say like, "Oh, I have this love for this character, but I do because I feel she represents so many people that I've met along the way that have shared their stories with me, and I feel like I carry that with her.

我不知道，这样说很奇怪，“哦，我很喜欢这个角色，但我确实喜欢，因为我觉得她代表了我这一路上遇到的很多人，他们和我分享了他们的故事，我觉得我和她一样。”

Do you know what I mean? - I do, yeah. - She's a collection of a whole lot of people.

你明白我的意思吗？- 我明白，是的。-她是很多人的综合体。

- [Andrew] Sure.

当然。

- And a whole lot of experiences.

还有很多经历。

And every time someone, I think, shares with me, that's when I gain more insight and understanding, and I think having to play, like you're saying, those specific things, I think it's just that open conversation, and I trust Sam enough to go, "I don't buy it." - [Andrew] Right.

每当有人和我分享时，我就会获得更多的洞察力和理解，我认为必须去演，就像你说的，去演那些具体的东西，我认为这只是开放式的对话，我足够信任萨姆去说，“我不信。”对。

- I don't believe what you're doing.

我不相信你在做什么。

And he'll tell me. He'll come to me and be like, "Mmm, why are you acting there, I can see it happening," you know, and remind me that I got it, he's like, "You got it, you got it, you already got it.

他会告诉我。他会来找我说，“嗯，你为什么在那里表演，我能看到它发生，”你知道，提醒我，我做到了，他说，“你表演对了，你表演对了，你已经做到了。

You don't have to, you got it." Ah, I'm just gonna steal some shit.

你不需要，你表演对了。”啊，我只是想偷点东西。

- Tell me about the memes.

跟我说说表情包的事。

'Cause, like, I noticed this.

因为，我注意到了。

No, but like every Sunday, though, like "Euphoria" became like the meme of the thing.

不，但就像每个周日一样，《亢奋》就成了这事的梗。

How was that? - It was like, "Euphoria" Sundays, it became like a sporting event.

怎么回事？- 就好专属《亢奋》的星期天，它变成了一场体育赛事。

It was interesting because I think it's hilarious. I think so many people, I was like, "Wow, you guys are so creative." I also was a little concerned, 'cause I was like, "Are you guys watching the episode?" Because how are you typing and staying on time with the episode at the same time? - Pay attention.

这很有趣，因为我认为这很好笑。我想很多人，我会说，“哇，你们太有创造力了。”我也有点担心，因为我想，“你们在看这一集吗？''因为你怎么能在打字的同时还能准时看剧呢？ - 要专注。

- I don't know.

我不知道。

But, no, it was cool in the sense that, like, there's a collective, right?

但是，不，从某种意义上说，这很酷，就像，有集体的感觉，对吗？

Yeah. - There's people coming together and being able to, like, enjoy something together and, like, talk about something together, have discourse together, which is cool.

是的。- 人们聚在一起，能够一起享受一些事情，比如，一起谈论一些事情，一起交谈，这很酷。

But, also, I got really nervous, too, because we were still, like, in the middle of editing while things were coming out, so while episode five was coming out.

但同时，我也很紧张，因为我们还在剪辑的过程中，而剧集要播出了，所以当第五集要播出的时候。

I was literally in the studio writing, rewriting a version of "I'm Tired" with Lab to put in the...- That song was so beautiful, by the way. - Thank you so much. - Oh my gosh.

我当时的确还在录音室里写东西，和拉布一起重写了一个版本的《我累了》，然后放进……- 顺便说一下，那首歌太美了。- 非常感谢。- 我的天啊。

- To put in the finale.

放在剧集的最后。

Yeah. - So we were, like, that's what we were doing while that was happening.

是的。- 所以我们，这就是我们在做的事情。

So we're still editing, so we're still inside of it, so it wasn't like a big separation. - Oh, that's tricky.

所以我们还在剪辑，所以我们还在里面，所以这没有很大的分离感。- 哦，那很难。

Yeah. - It's like reading reviews when you're doing a play or something. - Yeah. Cause you're still doing it. - You're still making it.

是的。- 这就像你在演一出戏或别的什么时候看评论一样。- 是的。因为你还在做。- 你还在做。

You don't want it to influence, you want it to remain pure.

你不希望它产生影响，你希望它保持纯净。

- [Zendaya] Exactly. And I.. . - That song is so gorgeous.

没错。我…… - 那首歌太棒了。

- Thank you so much. - So beautiful.

非常感谢。- 太好听了。

- Lab is very, very talented, very special.

拉布非常非常有才华，非常特别。

And also, like, I'm very protective over Rue, and also, like I said, because of all the people that she represents.

还有，我对鲁很有保护欲，而且，就像我说的，因为她代表的所有人。

- Totally.

太对了。

- And so I know that sometimes maybe the world won't be as kind to her as I am, and that's hard for me, you know?

我知道有时候也许这个世界不会像我一样对她那么好，这对我来说很难，你知道吗？

So I'm like, "Just love her, though, but just wait, just wait, like, you know, just wait 'til we get to the episode we're working on right now. - Right.

所以我就说，“爱她就好了，但是再等等，再等等，就像，你知道，就等到我们现在正在拍的那集。 - 对。

Right. - Like, just hold on to this. - Oh, God, it's a mind, it's a mind fudge.

对。- 就像，等着看这里。“ - 哦，上帝，思维上的，这是思维上的无序。

- So, again, balance, right? - Yeah, balance. - With everything.

所以，同样，角色间的平衡，对吗？- 是的，平衡。- 一切都是。

So it was a lot of fun, but it was also very, you know, nerve-racking.

所以这很有趣，但也很伤脑筋。

Okay, so I'm gonna flip it back to you.

好，我要开始向你提问题了。

- Okay.

好的。

- Because I am very interested in your process, right, because I, and I'm trying to, maybe my memory deceives me, but I wanna say we were on set for "Spider-Man," I kept forgetting that you were English because you spoke in your American accent the whole time.

因为我对你的创作过程很感兴趣，因为我，我试着，也许我的记忆欺骗了我，但我想说的是，我们在拍摄《蜘蛛侠》的时候，我一直忘记你是英国人，因为你一直在用你的美国口音说话。

Yeah. - And I was like, "Oh, shit, he is." - Oh, sugar.

是的。- 我说，“哦，我靠，他是。”哦，甜心。

- Oh, oh, snap.

哦，哦，打响指。

He is from, oh, dang.

他来自，哦，该死。

Okay. - Oh, darn. - Darn, darn it. - [Andrew] Oh, fudge, fudge. - Fudgesicles, you know?

好吧。- 哦，真讨厌。- 真讨厌，烦死了。- 哦，废话，废话。- 软糖冰棍，你知道吗？

- Okay, let's pick one target.

好，我们选一个目标。

- Right. - And we take them off the board one at a time.

好。- 我们把它们一个一个地从板上拿下来。

- Now you got it.

现在你明白了。

Okay, Peter One, Peter Two. - Peter Two.

好的，彼得一号，彼得二号。- 彼得二号。

- Peter Three. - Peter Three.

彼得三号。- 彼得三号。

- I don't know your connections to your characters and how much you stay in them or step out of them, but I'm sure there's a process from when you see them on a paper, you know, and you visualize, and you start, again, like, do they, how do you feel that they come into you?

我不知道你和你的角色之间的联系，也不知道你在他们身上停留了多久，又花了多少时间从角色中抽离，但我肯定有一个过程，当你在纸上看到他们时，你会想象，你会再次开始，就像，他们，你对他们进入你的内心有什么感觉？

Do you feel like you find them?

你觉得你找到他们了吗？

Do you feel like it's a mixture of both?

你觉得这是两者的混合体吗？

- I find it's different every time. - Right.

我发现每次都不一样。- 对。

I feel like it's first day of school every single time.

我每次都感觉像是开学第一天。

Right, right, right.

对，对，没错。

- And I feel like I start from scratch, and I feel like every single time, I'm stepping, I'm jumping off the side of a cliff. - Right.

我觉得我是从头开始，我觉得每一次，我都在走，我都是从悬崖边上跳下去。 - 对。

It never feels safe, and if it feels safe, I'm a bit concerned.

从来没有感觉到安全，如果感觉安全，我会有点担心。

And that, I think, is the bus analogy as well. - Right, a little bit of fear is good.

我认为，这也是公共汽车的类比。- 对，一点点恐惧是好的。

- Yeah. Oh, a lot of fear, like a lot of fear and doubt.

是的。哦，很多恐惧，很多恐惧和怀疑。

It's kind of become a friend. It's had to become a friend. - Comforting.

有点像成为朋友一样。它必须成为朋友。- 安抚自己。

- Yeah, strangely.

是的，很奇怪。

It's like, "Oh, here you are, come on, buddy, we're still gonna go back into rehearsal, even though we would rather throw ourselves in the river." Like, we're still gonna carry on.

就像，“哦，你来了，来吧，兄弟，我们还是要继续排练，即使我们宁愿自己跳进河里。”我们还会继续。

But, yeah. I mean, with an accent, for me, it's like, I just don't wanna confuse my body, and I don't wanna confuse someone else's system, you know what I mean? I wanna, I just wanna...- - Right. Right. Right.

但是，是的。我是说，对我来说，我的口音就像，我只是不想让我的身体感到迷惑，我不想让别人的思维体系感到迷惑，你明白我的意思吗？我想，我只是想……- 对。对。对。

It's just simpler. - It's easier.

这样更简单。- 这样更容易。

- It's easier and, like, the musculature stays warm in that way.

这样更容易，肌肉组织也能保持热身状态。

I find it fun because it's kind of like a more technical, I mean, like, the creative choices are the creative choices, and I'm so indecisive as well.

我觉得这很有趣，因为这有点像更有技术性的工作，我的意思是，创造性的选择就是创造性的选择，我也很优柔寡断。

Like, I, you know, when I.. . I'm like redoing my kitchen right now, and I'm like, "Oh my God, I love this tile, but this tile." - But this tile. - And it takes me like a year to figure out, like, I don't, anyway.

就像，我，你知道，当我……我正在重新装修我的厨房，我想，“天哪，我喜欢这块瓷砖，但是这块瓷砖。”- 但是这块瓷砖。- 我花了一年的时间才明白，我不需要，反正就是这样吧。

So with the creative choices, they take moments for me to figure out, but then I love having something solid to hold onto in a process that is so intangible, like what we were talking about.

所以对于创造性的选择，我需要一些时间来思考，但我喜欢在一个无形的过程中有一些坚实的东西来坚持，就像我们刚才谈论的那样。

So, actually, an accent and a voice and a physicality, some, like, hooks and places where I can hang my hat that will ground me, that can be kind of triggers to get back into the character, actually. - Right, back into it, yeah.

所以，实际上，口音、声音和身体，一些，像钩子和我可以挂帽子的地方，会让我有所支撑，其实，这可能是回到角色的触发因素。- 对，回到角色，是的。

When you feel like you're.

当你觉得你是。

- Yeah, or, like, like a piece of costume, or, like, a rhythm, or if I'm doing, like, an animal study as a physicality.

是的，或者是一件服装，或者是一种节奏，或者是我在做的一项动物研究，物质性方面的研究。

Right. - Like, I'm looking for the forgotten aspects of myself that I can activate.

没错。- 比如，我在寻找我自己被遗忘的一面，我可以激活它。

And I need to get Morris to bring the print kit and a video camera, I need you both to record every single corner in that house.

我要让莫里斯带上打印工具和摄像机，我要你们俩把房子里的每个角落都录下来。

What drew me into it was, I think, the step-by-step, moment-by-moment process of a kind of psychological breakdown.

我认为吸引我进入其中的是，一步一步循序渐进的，一种心理崩溃的过程。

Like, kind of a belief system crumbling.

就像是某种信仰体系崩溃了。

I remember speaking to a guy in Utah who went through the exact same thing.

我记得我在犹他州和一个人聊过，他也有同样的经历。

It was a Mormon police officer who had a really big crisis of faith because of a case he was working on, and was having to reckon with potentially losing his wife, potentially losing his kids, losing his community, being thrown out of the Mormon faith.

这是一位摩门教警察，他面临着非常大的信仰危机，因为他正在处理一个案件，他不得不考虑可能会失去妻子，可能会失去孩子，失去他的群体，被赶出摩门教信仰。

And suddenly this character became like flesh and bones and cells and dreams and longings and a heart and ancestry.

突然间，这个角色变得有血有肉、有骨骼、有细胞、有梦想、有渴望、有心脏、有祖先。

Suddenly it was like, "Oh my God, the universe just be tangible." - It's tangible, I can feel it.

突然间，我就觉得，“天啊，宇宙是有形的。”- 这是实实在在的，我能感觉到。

And, again, a feeling of calling and a responsibility to represent an experience.

同样，一种召唤的感觉和代表一种经历的责任。

To represent a type of person going through a type of experience that feels really important.

代表一种人正在经历一种体验，这感觉非常重要。

'Cause I think as long as we have the longing, then some mystery happens where we find our way into, like, forcing the skin of that person around us, or that skin emerges above our skin.

因为我认为只要我们有这种渴望，那么在我们找到进入角色的方法时就会发生一些神秘的事情，比如，强迫那个人的形态覆盖在我们身上，或者那个形态出现在我们的皮肤上。

However we want to describe it.

不管我们怎么描述它。

You know what, if I were you, I would rather find that kind of family dead rather than safe and sound.

你知道吗，如果我是你，我宁愿看到那家人死了也不愿看到他们安然无恙。

- The endurance that I think you have to have with a character, and emotionally when it comes to a television show, as well, versus a film, and I wanted to kind of ask you about: A, your experiences with that, and then I wanna tag onto that, again, when you're dealing with, I think, the subject matter of your show, I mean, it's so heavy, right, and painful and delicate, you know?

我认为你对一个角色的忍耐力，以及对电视剧和电影中的情感上的忍耐力，我想问你：首先，你的角色经历，然后我想再强调一下，当你在处理，我想是，你出演的剧集主题，我是说，它太沉重了，对吧，痛苦而微妙，你知道吗？

And it's not an easy thing to just say, you know, yeah, today I'm walking onto a crime scene, like, and I'm just, that's my day today, and I'm gonna pretend like none of it affects me.

这不是一件容易的事情，是的，今天我走进犯罪现场，就像，我只是，今天是我的一天，我要假装这对我没有影响。

And then I have to do this for the next eight months because this is not a movie where I can dip up out of it, but I'm in this for, like, the long haul, right?

然后接下来的 8 个月我都得这么做，因为这不是一部我能从中抽身而出的剧集，但我要长期投入其中，对吗？

And how do you stay in that?

你是怎么保持这种状态的？

And how do you find working on, like, a longer medium, I guess, in that way? - It's hard, I found it really hard.

你觉得用这种方式在较长一些的创作素材上工作的感觉怎么样？- 很难，我发现真的很难。

- Really hard, yeah, I could imagine.

真的很难，是的，我可以想象。

- It was six months in Calgary.

在卡尔加里（加拿大西南部城市）呆了六个月。

- Mm, okay.

嗯，好的。

- I mean. - Got it.

我是说。- 明白了。

- And there was, like, beautiful mountains and lakes and really good restaurants in the city.

那里有美丽的山脉和湖泊，还有非常好的餐馆。

There's a place called the Repsol Center, which I went most days off, which had a cold plunge and a steam room and a great gym.

有个地方叫雷普索尔中心（社区体育中心），我大部分时间都去那里，那里有冷水浴、蒸汽房和很棒的健身房。

Shout out to the Repsol Center. Love you guys, miss you guys so much.

向雷普索尔中心大声呼喊。爱你们，非常想念你们。

Repsol for life. - You guys were great.

雷普索尔终身会员。- 你们很棒。

- Repsol for life.

雷普索尔终身会员。

For real, though, Repsol for life.

不过，说真的，我是雷普索尔终身会员。

- They helped get you through, clearly.

显然是他们帮你渡过难关。

- They really did. - Yeah.

他们真的做到了。- 是的。

Yeah, Dustin Lance Black, who created the show and adapted the John Krakauer non-fiction book from, oh, God, for the last 10 years, it's a real passion project for him.

是的，达斯汀·兰斯·布莱克，他创作了这部剧，还改编了约翰·克拉考尔的纪实小说，天哪，在过去的十年里，这对他来说是一个充满激情的项目。

He's an ex-Mormon himself, Dustin, and he, you know, it's very, very personal for him, and that helps, when you have someone at the helm who, like Sam Levinson, like, that it's so personal, it's such a passion project, it kind of like, it trickles down to the rest of the ensemble and the rest of the crew. So I.. .

他自己也是前摩门教徒，达斯汀，这对他来说是非常非常私人的事情，这很有帮助，当你有像萨姆·莱文森这样的人掌舵时，这是非常私人化的情感，这是充满激情的项目，它有点像，它会渗透到整个团队和其他工作人员。所以我……

We had a great group of actors, Daisy Edgar Jones and Wyatt Russell and Sam Worthington and Denise Gough.

我们有一群很棒的演员，黛西·埃德加·琼斯、怀亚特·拉塞尔、萨姆·沃辛顿和丹尼斯·高夫。

It's just amazing, amazing actors, and I think they, we were all on location together, and I think that's always fun.

太棒了，演员们太棒了，我们都在片场，我觉得这很有趣。

When you have a bunch of actors who are kind of taken out of their day-to-day, and you're figuring out a new city together and riding around on those Bird scooters and, like, trying to find, like, the best ribs in Calgary and not get COVID, it's like it becomes a game, but it was, it's heavy.

当你有一群演员，他们有点脱离了各自的日常生活，你们一起探索一座新城市，骑着那些鸟踏板车四处看看，想找到卡尔加里最好吃的排骨，而又不会感染新冠病毒，这就像是一场游戏，但它，它很沉重。

It's like the universe and the world that my character had to be dipped in and stay in and explore and not flinch away from in pursuit of truth, in pursuit of doing right by this horrendous act of violence that took a mother and a young child, and, like, I think that is the thing that kept this character connected.

这就像宇宙和世界，我的角色必须沉浸其中，留在角色中，去探索，而不是退缩，去追求真理，夺走了一个母亲和一个孩子，通过这种可怕的暴力行为去做正确的事情，我认为这是让这个角色与人产生共鸣的东西。

That was the, the North Star and the light at the end of the tunnel.

那是北极星和隧道尽头的光。

So, for me, it was like, "Well, I have no choice." It's, again, it's one of those things, I have to go there, I have to stay in it, I have to go there, but he's actually struggling with the same thing of, like, how do I keep this toxicity away from my family. - Away from my family.

所以，对我来说，这就像，“嗯，我别无选择。”同样，这是其中的一件事，我必须去那里，我必须呆在那里，我必须去那里，但他实际上也在为同样的事情而挣扎，比如，我如何让这种坏事远离我的家人。- 远离我的家人。

Yeah. - Away from my kids, away from my own being, away from my own soul, how do I stay clean?

是的。- 远离我的孩子，远离我自己，远离我自己的灵魂，我怎么能保持纯净？

How do I not lose myself in this dark, seedy underworld?

我怎么能不迷失在这个黑暗肮脏的地下世界？

This kind of hellscape, 'cause it's a hellscape.

这种地狱景象，因为这就是地狱般的景象。

Like, he's dealing with evil.

就像，他在和邪恶打交道。

Yeah. - And I think that is a remarkably powerful force when you're just faced with kind of abstract, intangible evil that you're attempting to wrangle and to snuff out.

是的。- 我认为这是一种非常强大的力量，当你只是面对一种抽象的、无形的邪恶时，你尝试与之争论并扼杀它。

It's like dealing with the Nazi regime or something like that.

这就像和纳粹政权打交道一样。

So it was painful, it was really, really painful and hard, and I, the Repsol Center just cured all of it.

非常痛苦，真的非常非常痛苦，而我，雷普索尔中心恰恰治愈了所有这些。

- Shout out again.

再喊一遍。

They get a lot of love.

他们得到了很多爱。

I gotta go.

我得走了。

Recommended by. - Everyone is in Calgary. If you're shooting in Calgary, you gotta hit Repsol. I.. .

推荐人。- 大家都在卡尔加里。如果你在卡尔加里拍戏，就得去雷普索尔中心。

No, but, like, it was not fun a lot of the time.

没有，但很多时候都不好玩。

My guess is that Sam's army, they consider themselves totally devout, willing to give up their lives for their beliefs, and their own son's included in their sacrifices.

我猜萨姆的军队，他们认为自己非常虔诚，愿意为他们的信仰献出自己的生命，他们的儿子也在他们的牺牲之列。

- Sometimes I'm like, ah, like I'm, I'm an actor, and I look at myself, I'm like, "What a ridiculous job." I'm like, "I have the coolest job, I love my job so much," but sometimes you're just like... "I mean, I dress up for a living," you know, and I'm like, "I don't wanna take myself too serious," 'cause I feel like there's people who do far more important things than I do.

有时候我会想，啊，就像我，我是个演员，我看着自己，我就想，“多么荒谬的工作。”我会说，“我有一份最酷的工作，我非常热爱我的工作，”但有时你只是……“我是说，我是为了谋生才打扮的，”你知道，我想，“我不想把自己看得太重，”因为我觉得有些人做的事情比我重要得多。

- My brother's a lung doctor for crying out loud.

我哥哥是位肺科医生，哎呀呀。

- Exactly, right. - Come on, bro.

没错，对。- 来吧，兄弟。

- I can pretend to be one, but I can't actually, you know.

我可以假装是，但我不可能真的是，你知道。

So within that is, you know, finding purpose in what you do, and why do I love this so much?

所以在这里面，在你所做的事情中找到目标，找到为什么我这么喜欢这个？

And I think that what I found is what you're talking about in that sense of like, is this understanding of, like, a collective empathy, and an understanding of someone else's life and experience, and as corny as it is, but walking mile on their shoes, like, that whole thing is so deeply important.

我认为我发现的是你在那种意义上所说的，是对集体同理心的理解，对别人生活和经历的理解，尽管这很老套，但是站在他们的角度生活一段时间，整件事其实非常重要。

It's also important to feel seen in that way because what I've found through "Euphoria" is it gave people the tools to communicate feelings that they didn't have the ability to express or say, and say, "Hey, I don't know how to tell you, but this is how I'm feeling." Yeah. - Or, "This is what I'm going through.

以这种方式被看到也很重要，因为我在《亢奋》中发现，它给了人们沟通情感的工具，去交流那些他们没有能力表达或说出来的感受，然后说，“嘿，我不知道该怎么告诉你，但这就是我的感受。”是的。- 或者，“这就是我正在经历的。

Can you watch this with me?" Or, "Let's watch this together." - Beautiful. - Like we talked about "Spider-Man," but the amount of joy that that brought people is, like, so cool. - Oh, yeah.

你能和我一起看这个吗？”或者，“我们一起看这个吧。”真好。- 就像我们聊的《蜘蛛侠》一样，但它给人们带来的欢乐太酷了。- 是啊。

- Like, to see you guys have that moment together was special, but then, also, it made people happy.

就像，看到你们在一起的那一刻很特别，但也让人很开心。

I think that's really cool.

我认为那很酷。

- And also, like, about brotherhood.

还有，兄弟情谊。

Yeah. - And I love the idea that maybe Tom's Peter would've suffered the same fate as Andrew's Peter if Andrew hadn't somehow come into that universe and learned from the mistakes of the past and made sure that my younger brother and his love didn't have the same fate.

是的。- 我喜欢这样的想法，如果安德鲁没有以某种方式进入那个宇宙，从过去的错误中吸取教训，并确保我的弟弟和他的爱人不会有同样的命运，也许汤姆演的那个彼得会和安德鲁演的那个彼得遭受同样的命运，

That's kind of cosmically...- It's so cool.

很宏大…… - 太酷了。

- It's awesome. - It's so cool.

太棒了。- 太酷了。

I mean, I remember when I read that, I was like.

我是说，我记得当我读到的时候，我就像。

- [Andrew] Yeah, it's really, yeah. - It made me very happy.

是的，真的，是的。- 这让我很开心。

- And that was fun, I loved shooting that with you so much.

那很有趣，我非常喜欢和你一起拍摄。

- Wasn't that, like, our first thing, too? - I think it was, like, yeah, absolutely. - Like, "Hi, I met you yesterday, thanks for catching me.

这不也是我们做的第一件事吗？ - 我觉得那是，是的，绝对是。- 比如，“嗨，我昨天见过你，谢谢你接我。

How are you? You good?

你好吗？你还好吗？

Okay, you have to cry, sorry." - It was pretty intense.

好吧，你得哭了，不好意思。” - 非常紧锣密鼓的变化。

It went like that, and then suddenly we were kind of done, and it was like this huge moment that we just did like a few takes of. - But I guess it was good to get the more emotional stuff out of the way, 'cause the rest of the time was just... - Just giddy, joyful.

就像这样，然后突然之间我们差不多拍完了，就像这个重要的时刻，我们只拍了几次。- 但我想把更情绪化的东西拿开是件好事，因为剩下的时间只是……只是眼花缭乱，快乐。

- We were just having a good old time. - Being so dumb.

我们只是玩得很开心。- 太傻了。

- Yeah.

是的。

- I don't wanna brag, but I will.

我不想吹牛，但我得说。

I was in "The Avengers." - "The Avengers?" - Yeah. - That's great.

我演过《复仇者联盟》。《复仇者联盟》？是的。- 那太好了。

- Thank you. - What is that?

谢谢你。- 谢的什么？

- What was really funny, I think, about it is, like, Tom was so nervous about you guys coming in. - That's so wild. - So nervous. - He never let anything onto us.

我觉得真正有趣的是，汤姆对你们的到来很紧张。- 太不寻常了。- 太紧张了。- 他从来没有让我们受到任何影响。

Yeah. - Pull those pants down, come on.

是的。- 把裤脚放下来，快点。

Get those calves under, get under...- Under control. - Under wraps, yeah.

把小腿伸进去，伸进去…… - 保持正常。- 都包裹起来，对。

- Crazy forearms.

这难穿的前臂紧身衣。

Inside jokes. - What was that from? I forget what that was from. - It was a Toby one, and he's like, "These crazy," 'cause he was trying to pull up the... - Crazy forearms. - Forearms.

这是我们的内部笑话。- 那是什么？我忘了这是怎么回事了。- 是托比的笑话，他说，“那些疯的”，因为他想把……拉上来。这难穿的前臂紧身衣。- 前臂。

So it reminded me of this.

这让我想起了这个。

Anyway. - Good joke bank you got there in that noggin of yours.

反正就是这样了。- 你的脑袋里有个很好笑的笑话库。

- They stay with us, we used them a lot. - Yeah.

它们和我们在一起，我们经常讲。- 是的。

- [Andrew] Damn, that's really good. - Yeah, we use them a lot.

哎呀呀，真的很好笑。- 是的，我们经常讲。

But he was so nervous, and 'cause, like, you know, he was like, "I don't wanna step on anyone's toes, and I don't want anybody to feel...like I just wanna. . ." - We were like that, me and Toby were like that.

但他太紧张了，因为，他说，“我不想冒犯到任何人，我不想让任何人感觉到……我只是想……” - 我们就是那样，我和托比就是那样想折。

We were like, "We don't wanna step on Tom's, like this is Tom's movie, it's your guys' movie," and it was like, "If we can help, again, just to serve and be of." But it's so funny 'cause he would never let, he just seemed so, but that's so sweet that you guys were there. - That's why we were there. 'Cause he was like, "Can you guys come with me?" - Yeah. Cause you guys were like, "I guess we're gonna come and hang out with you guys at rehearsal." I'm like, "What are these guys doing?" - Yeah, 'cause at rehearsal, we didn't really have very many lines.

我们说，“我们不想冒犯到汤姆的电影，这是汤姆主演的电影，是你们的电影，”就像，“如果我们能帮上忙，同样，只是为了服务和成就角色。”但这很有趣，因为他从来不会，他只是看起来，但你们在那里真是太美好了。- 所以我们才去那里。因为他说，“你们能和我一起去吗？”是的。因为你们说，“我想我们会在排练时和你们一起出去玩。”我想，“这些人在做什么?”是的，因为在排练时，我们并没有太多台词。

We were just, like, we were there for emotional support.

我们只是在那里提供情感上的支持。

- Sweet, very sweet.

贴心，非常贴心。

- But with that being said, I think, you know, we were like, "I think they don't know how much, like, fun we like to have when we're doing this job.

但话虽如此，我想，我们就像，“我想他们不知道我们在做这份工作时多么喜欢有很多趣。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. - Like, this is, like, we have fun.

是的。是的。是的。- 我们玩得很开心。

Yeah. - And it was nice that you guys just, like... - It became very evident very quickly. - Fell right into to the crew.

是的。- 你们真的很好。这很快就变得非常明显。- 直接融入到团队当中。

It was, like, it was such a fun experience.

这是一次非常有趣的经历。

I was, like, pissing myself laughing, but I was, I was dying.

我当时笑得尿裤子了，但我当时，我快笑死了。

You guys had me dying, like crying laughing in between takes all the time.

你们让我快笑死了，在拍摄间隙又哭又笑。

- [Andrew] That is so silly.

这太傻了。

- How cool is that? - It's the best, we are very lucky.

多酷啊？- 最好的经历，我们很幸运。

And then my brother's saving lives in London.

然后我哥哥在伦敦拯救生命。

- Right, here we are.

啊，我们在这。

- My brother's treating COVID patients as we speak, and we're wearing, I'm wearing a lovely jacket talking about "Spider-Man." - Exactly.

就在我们说话的间隙，我哥哥正在治疗新冠病毒患者，我们穿着，我穿着一件可爱的夹克在谈论《蜘蛛侠》。 - 没错。

- No, but then he goes home and he watches "Spider-Man" with his boys, do you know what I mean?

不，但他回家后会和他的孩子们一起看《蜘蛛侠》，你懂我的意思吗？

Yeah. - It's that, it's, like, it's, I don't know, I'm just trying to justify my existence now. - Right, now I'm feeling bad about my life.

懂。- 就像，就像，就像，我不知道，我只是想证明我现在的存在意义。- 是啊，现在我觉得我的生活很糟糕。

I have some things to ask you. - What's that?

我有些事要问你。- 问什么？

- I'm like, "We love talking, and I'm like, "Shit, I have to ask him something that I do really want the answer to. - Next week on Zendaya and Andrew at the Repsol Center, we will be, what will we... - We'll have visitors from the Repsol Center.

我想说，“我们喜欢聊天，然后我想：“该死，我必须问他一些我非常想知道答案的问题。” - 下周在雷普索尔中心，赞达亚对话安德鲁，我们会，我们会……我们会有来自雷普索尔中心的访客。

- Yeah, we'll have testimonials.

是的，我们会有推荐信。

- Live testimonies. - Right.

现场个人分享。- 对。